Here’s the latest from the crossroads of faith, media & culture: 05/01/24

Believing is seeing. I first met Dave Noll in 2002 when he held a development position at a New York-based production company company called City Lights Television which had optioned a sci-fi drama pilot I wrote. Since then he has gone on to see his visions for over sixty television shows become reality, including the Food Network phenomenon Chopped and one of my personal favorite game shows America Says.

These days Keller/Noll, the independent TV development company he co-founded with his friend and creative business partner Cleve Keller, is an industry powerhouse in the game show and reality competition space. Coming soon is The Flip Side, a new game show hosted by former Family Matters child star Jaleel White that will air on CBS stations across the country in the fall.

In his new book The Visionary in Charge: 7 Simple Rules…Because Just One Extraordinary Idea Can Change Your Life, Noll shares what he has learned about the value of listening to that creative voice inside of you.

JWK: What motivated you to write this book?

Dave Noll: I didn’t really fully understand why (I wanted to write it) at first. At one point Cleve and I used to work for Barry Diller who is a billionaire. He started the Fox Network. Diller was absolutely amazing. We had just four years with him. He’s just the smartest person we’ve ever worked with. What he used to do was send us to the MIP conference twice a year in Cannes, France. Twice a year they have this TV conference. He would send us to pitch game shows on a yacht. We would pitch for three straight days. Basically, you’d start at Ten O’Clock in the morning. You’d pitch at Ten, you’d pitch at 10:30, 11:00, 11:30, 12:00, 12:30, then you’d break for lunch for an hour. Then, 2:00, 2:30 and you’d just keep pitching game shows to all these different network executives from all around the world. You might have France, then Japan, then Scandinavia and then Italy. If you were doing well, more and more people would come. It was crazy because with all these different people there would be more and more excitement. The whole goal was to get them to buy your shows. Then on the fourth day, you’d have all these notes. Maybe you’d have a couple more meetings on the fourth day. So, you’d have all these notes that you’re going through – like “Oh, we have to send this to these people  and they have this and we have to get them the answer to this!” So, you’d do all that and be like a crazy person “relaxed” on this yacht.

There was this one time – one of the last times that we went – where I’m sitting on the yacht with my feet up, relaxing, going through all these notes – and I remember saying to myself “You’ve learned so much. You need to start writing this stuff down. There’s just so much that you’ve learned from Diller (about) creating  shows and trying to get these shows out there.” It’s actually, ideally, about creating these massive brands. That’s the whole goal – where you create a show like Chopped that goes to over 1000 episodes and there are versions around the world. I kept saying “You’ve learned so much from this business, you need to start writing it down.” I started writing all these stories, all these nuggets and all this stuff Diller had taught us over the years on these colored note cards. Then, over the years I would write these things and I kept a stack of colored note cards. What happened was you’d start to see patterns. You’d start to see these rules – like “Oh, this is another example!” (and) “Oh, this is another example!” So, that’s really what it was.

It’s funny. The answer to the question – “Why’d you write book?” – I had no answer to it. I didn’t really know. Then I was talking to Carnie Wilson…who is great by the way! I is absolutely love her! She is so funny. She’s brassy, ballsy and hilarious. So, she asked me and I had this terrible answer. I was like “I don’t really know why” and the answer went on and on and on. She was like “STOP! I’ve known you for a long time. I’ve pitched shows with you! You wrote the book to inspire people! That’s why you did it!” I said “You think so?” She was like “YES!” She said “When you pitch shows, what you’re doing is inspiring people – inspiring network executives to see the vision for the show and give you all this money to do the show.” She said “That’s what you do almost every day – is inspire people to see the vision for the show. That’s why you wrote the book. You wrote it for creatives to be inspired to create new things – and for people who aren’t (professionally) creative to be creative if that’s what they wish.” So, I think she’s right. Carnie is very smart.

JWK: In your experience, what have you determined to be the ingredients of a hit TV show?

DN: It’s very simple. Wheel of Fortune. Oh, that’s Hangman but with a wheel and it’s colorful and fun! Survivor. You’re stranding people on an island, you throw people off one by one and one person wins a million dollars. American Idol. A bunch of kids all think they can sing and be the next big pop star (and are voted off the show one by one). Simple – but one thing that you’ve never seen before, one thing where you can tell your friends about it, one thing where you fully understand it as a viewer.

JWK: I think you’ve noted that Lost was kind of one step away from Survivor.

DN: Exactly right. It’s a big difference, right? Survivor is a reality show. Lost was a drama. But there’s really only one difference. If you look at both of those shows, they’re both an hour-long prime-time network television show with a big cast. They’re both set on an island. The casts look the same – the first-season cast of Lost and the first-season cast of Survivor. Then it goes even deeper. The main character in Survivor is Jeff. That’s a four-letter name that starts with a J. He’s a white guy, good looking, brown hair. The main character on Lost was Jack – four letters, starts with a J. They’re both basically the same age and physical features –  good-looking white guys with brown hair. What we usually find is it’s crazy simple and that there’s one thing, one hook.

JWK: So, it’s like one thing that’s familiar and one thing that’s different.

DN: And then you’ve gotta have a great title. It can’t have a terrible title. It can’t have a bad title where your confused and like “What the heck is this show?”

JWK: Lost always struck me as sort of a cross between Gilligan’s Island and The Twilight Zone.

DN: Absolutely! Gilligan’s Island! Very similar! Castaway! Very similar! You see these patterns again and again. It makes sense because, as a viewer, we don’t want to work too hard. You see it (sometimes very) obviously. You like CSI! Well, now CSI: Miami! You like NCIS? Now, it’s NCIS: New Orleans or whatever. Even Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones, there’s not a lot of difference there. They’re fantasies. If you flipped one on you might think it was the other…but then there’s a big difference. Game of Thrones is on HBO so it’s got all the violence and all the sex.

JWK: How’d you come up with the idea for Chopped? Is that one step away from anything?

DN: At the time Food Network basically had one competition show. It was Iron Chef. The thing about Iron Chef was it was one competition in the hour. That’s the way most things were at that point – maybe everything in the US. It was just one competition in an hour. What happened was we knew the ratings lagged (during) the show. It’s a great show! A classic show! But the ratings lagged in like acts 3 and 4 – because it’s an hour show with only one competition. They introduced the ingredient that they had to cook with and by act 3 you’re like “Alright, let’s go. Get on with it.” In act 4 you’re like “Oh, my gosh! Come on!” I remember I used to flip away and then come back to see who wins.

This was like 2006/2007. There was a show that my friend Mike and I were obsessed with the format of called ElimiDate where one woman dated four guys (at once). At different times in the date she would eliminate them and they would be upset, whatever. Then it would come down to two guys and she would pick one. So, she’d end up with one guy. Mike and I were obsessed with (the format). We called it a 4-3-2-1. We were like there’s gotta be other ways to do a 4-3-2-1. There’s gotta be game shows or a crime show. There’s gotta be other ways to do a 4-3-2-1.

So, I had this pitch set up with Charles Nordlander at Food Network. Charles is always very intimidating, very smart. We used to call him “The Wizard.” Because he had these circular glasses, he looked like a wizard – and he was crazy smart and very scary! Cleve and I were in New York. Mike was in LA. I called Mike and said “I have all these ideas for pitching the Wizard but I don’t know what to pitch! I don’t love anything!” Mike was like “Well, what if we did a 4-3-2-1 meets Iron Chef?” I was like “Oh, my gosh! That’s amazing! Yes! There are four chefs cooking for three judges. Three of these legendary judges, four up-and-coming chefs. They each cook for them. There’s a host.” Mike was like “This is so good! It’s appetizer, main course, dessert!” I was like “Yes! Oh, my God! This is genius!” We got all excited – and, you know, you’re looking for a title. Is there a hook?

I did not know at that point what a cloche was called. Literally, only from old Bugs Bunny cartoons, I knew that at fancy restaurants the waiter comes out with the food and then lifts up the silver dome – and the food is under the dome. I was like “Mike, there’s a dome and the losing dish is under the dome and he lifts it up and he says ‘You’ve been chopped!'” I said “Mike, it’s called Chopped!” He was “You’re a genius!” I said “You’re a genius!” It took us a couple of days. Over those couple of days we talked to Cleve and we built this show out. We were very, very excited about it. What we loved about it was we thought this will be addictive. You won’t be able to shut it off. It will move so fast with three competitions in the hour.

So, when I went in to pitch Nordlander I said to him “This could be so addictive.” I said it’s the type of show you could put on eight episodes on a Saturday. People would just watch. They wouldn’t be able to turn it off. This could be your Jeopardy!” To his credit, Charles Nordlander got it all right away and bought a pilot very, very quickly.

JWK: One of your contestants on the show was the son of Karen Allen from the Indiana Jones movies. I know because I interviewed her for this blog and we talked about it. Do you remember that?

DN: Wow! I don’t remember that. That’s crazy. I think we’ve given away in the millions of dollars now. It’s over a thousand an episode.

JWK: Wow!  That’s some rich food! Another show on your resume that I’ve always enjoyed is America Says.

DN: We would love to bring it back in some fashion. It is such a great show. It lasted 540 episodes – so far. We’re just so thrilled (with it). It’s amazing.

For years and years and years, I used to say any show show that gets on the air takes a miracle. It’s a miracle to get any show on the air. Now, I’m convinced any show that gets on the air takes at least three miracles. There’s at least three miracles – because it’s so hard to get through the whole gauntlet. (With) America Says we had this idea for this game. It was called Billionaire. Contestants could win a piece of the billionaire lifestyle. We pitched it to the USA Network. USA Network loved the game. They loved the show. They loved everything. Then we had this kind of sad moment where they called and they were like “Look, we love the game – and we want to throw out the whole hook. The title, the whole hook. Everything has to change.” We were like “Ugh!”

Cleve and I often get together on my porch. She comes over…and we just sit on my porch – or we sit in my office if it’s colder out…and we create shows. So, she came over on the train and we were like “What are we gonna do about the show?” We just talked about the game. We loved the game. We went to lunch and then we came back and we kept talking about the USA Network. We had another show (idea) at one point, ages before, called America Says. So, what Cleve did was take the game of the show that we had pitched them, took this game board that we had from a different show, took the title of a third show and tied it all together. I was like “Oh, my God! That’s amazing!” She was like “It’s the USA Network. They’re gonna love this.” It’s now called America Says and they absolutely loved it.

So, we did a pilot. They bought the pilot. They absolutely loved it. Then the mandate there changed. They were gonna give it ten hour-long episodes. They even said “Who do you want to cast?” We had this list and were going back and forth and we all settled on Whoopi Goldberg – and Whoopi wanted to do it. Then their mandate changed. They said “We don’t want to make a game show.” We were so depressed. It was so sad. I just would have done anything to work with Whoopi Goldberg. I was so excited. It’s called America Says and it’s gonna be on the USA Network. It was so perfect! So, they killed the whole thing and we were depressed for about a month or two months.

Then I happened to meet with the president of Game Show Network. He was brand new at the time. He said “We’re looking for one show just to start off. We’re gonna pick up one thing.” I went back and I said “Cleve, maybe let’s rework America Says a little.” It was the same show but it was angled different for USA. So, we reworked it. We went in – I think it was January 25th of 2018, if I recall perfectly – and we pitched it. Cleve stayed in LA for a little while. The next day I flew back. It was the next day. The plane lands at beautiful Newark Liberty Airport and I turn my phone on just to call my wife. There were all these texts, phone messages and voicemails! I thought something bad has happened because I don’t get this many messages unless something very bad (has) happened. Then I’m reading the texts. It’s Cleve saying “You have to call me right away!”

I call Cleve and she says “Game Show Network just picked up 65 episodes.” I just absolutely couldn’t believe it. We pitched them January 25th. On January 26th they picked up the first 65 episodes. She said they need it for June. That was January so – February, March, April, May – five months later we had 65 episodes done. Then it rated extremely well right away.

JWK: My wife and I really enjoy the show. It’s just one of those games that you can get into and play along with.

DN: We have a brand new show coming out in syndication. We pitched it to CBS. It’s coming out in syndication in September and Game Show Network is also gonna air it. It’s a partnership between CBS and Game Show Network called The Flip Side. We’re so excited! The host is Jaleel White. He’s been in a ton of stuff and he’s so funny but he’s most famous for Family Matters.

JWK: In my initial contact with you after learning about your book I mentioned that I think it’s a great idea for a show. I read about the concept on Deadline. I’ve also seen Jaleel White do other things besides Family Matters. He’s quite talented. I think he’s very underrated.

DN: He’s so funny! I can’t believe he hasn’t done more of this because in the pilot he was so good! (On) The Flip Side you ask a question about husbands and then you ask the same question about wives. You ask a question about seniors and then you ask a question about teenagers. Or you ask a question about getting a ticket from the policeman’s point of view and then you ask it from the driver’s point of view. And he was just so funny in the pilot. He got right away how kind of personal the game is when you ask questions about (the different perspectives) of husbands and wives or kids and parents or college kids and college professors.

JWK: So, people have to guess how a college student would answer a question as opposed to a college professor. Is that the idea?

DN: Exactly. So, you might say “We asked college professors what’s the worst thing about students?” and then we ask the students “What’s the worst thing about professors.” That’s the heart of the show. So, you’re trying to predict what they said.

JWK: It’s a great idea. Was it an easy sell?

(The answer to that question plus more on tapping the power of the visionary in you in Part 2 of our conversation next time.)
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“She was a woman of immense faith yet she wrote about all these sinners.” That’s  actor Ethan Hawke talking about what attracted him to co-write (with Shelby Gaines) and direct the film Wildcat about a defining episode in the real-life story of esteemed Catholic author Flannery O’Connor. The movie invites the audience to ponder the great questions she struggled with, such as Can scandalous art still serve God? Does suffering precede all greatness? and Can illness be a blessing?

The movie is set in 1950 as Flannery (played by Ethan’s daughter Maya Hawke) visits her mother Regina (Laura Linney) in Georgia when she is diagnosed with lupus at twenty-four years old. Struggling with the same disease that took her father’s life when she was a child and desperate to make her mark as a great writer, the health crisis focuses her imagination on some of the deepest questions of faith. The film opens in limited theater on Friday. To find theaters near you and reserve tickets click here. Check out the trailer below.

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Grand Reunion. A while back music legend Don McLean (who I interviewed last December) teamed with the popular vocal band Home Free for a rousing rendition of the McLean musical masterpiece American Pie. Well, they’ve just collaborated again on a new video version of Vincent, his classic homage to impressionist painter Vincent van Gogh and the artist’s own masterpiece The Starry Night.

And why not? As Home Free member Tim Foust suggests, “There is a case to be made for Vincent being the best-written song of all time. Musically AND lyrically, it just doesn’t get any better.” He adds “What an unbelievable honor to share the microphone with Don McLean on his masterpiece. And the fact that this is our second collaboration with him is surreal beyond words.”

IMHO: McLean is a true national treasure. As for Home Free, their videos are amazing. Some TV network executive should think about turning to them to revive the medium’s classic musical-variety show format. Just a thought.

John W. Kennedy is a writer, producer and media development consultant specializing in television and movie projects that uphold positive timeless values, including trust in God.